Wednesday, February 13, 2019
Tuesday, February 12, 2019
2019-02-05 - Board of Supervisors Meeting Notes
by Neil Richard
The Board of Supervisors began their first meeting of February at 7:24pm.
There was an amendment to the Agenda to add a presentation by Ryan Gandy regarding the King George Stakeholder Report on the partnership with the Fredericksburg Regional Alliance (FRA).
The Public Comment portion of the meeting began with Jerry Courtney. He said he lived about a mile as the crow flies from the former Cameron Hills Golf Course property, was a Navy veteran, and currently worked in the acoustics field. He wanted to give a demonstration, without teaching a class, about how sound can intensify. Giving the example of the King George High School Royal Regiment Marching Band at a football game, he asked everyone to imagine a student performing a solo. He then asked everyone to imagine the entire band performing. He said this simple example explains how sound can amplify and intensify. He then compared this to a single lane on a gun range being used versus multiple lanes being used at once. Courtney said there are formulas and calculators available online that can give further examples on how this process works. He said he reviewed the application from the Ognek brothers and could see where investors had tried to mitigate the concerns. He continued by saying there are multiple studies available that show gun ranges have a negative impact on home values and that he feels bad for those that live closer to the potential gun range. He closed by asking the Supervisors to please take into account the surrounding residents and vote against the proposal.
Next to speak was Dave Dooley who also wanted to voice his concerns over the proposed gun range. He said the Board has heard from several people on Salem Church Road and that may have minimized how broad the impact would be. He said he was a little closer to the golf course than the previous speaker. Dooley said during the winter, he can hear duck hunting on the Rappahannock River, nearly two miles away, from inside his house. He wanted people to understand that this wasn't just a Salem Church Road issue, that it was a broader issue. He said he's been in the County for 25 years and in the Rollins Fork area for more than ten. He said he wasn't anti-gun or even anti-development. Dooley said hunting and target shooting were part of country living and it wasn't a problem when it happened as a part of the natural life of the area. He said most people that hunt and target practice are respectful to their neighbors. He didn't want to say the business was going to be disrespectful but did feel it would have a negative impact on the area. Dooley closed by thanking the Supervisors for their efforts for the County and asked that they keep the Rollins Fork area in mind.
John McCullough was next to speak against the gun range. He kept his comments short by saying nobody could be more pro-gun than him but he couldn't imagine living there and hearing nothing but gunfire all weekend long.
Rob Neal was next to speak, again repeating his stance against the potential gun range. He cited a recent Free Lance-Star article where Richard Granger was quoted as saying the Comprehensive Plan would need to be revised to make gun ranges acceptable and a special exception permit would need to be obtained. Neal said the article also quoted the Ogneks as saying their application will demonstrate change isn't needed. He then directed his thanks to Ruby Brabo for her comments in the article about not wanting something like this in her backyard. Neal said he wanted to thank her for "publicly stating what you feel." Neal then moved off the topic of the gun range and said he recently noticed the plantings in the median of Kings Highway (Route 3). He said he was recently invited to attend an economic seminar and one of the things that came up in the discussion was how to help the County economically. Neal said he appreciated them for making the County more beautiful. Neal closed out his comments by telling Jeff Bueche the guys at the Convenience Center were awesome.
John Jenkins was absent.
Richard Granger began his report by thanking everyone for coming out to speak. He thanked Mr. Courtney for his real world example of how sound intensifies. Regarding the potential gun range, Granger said he needed to make a correction. He said the County Ordinances would need to be changes to allow gun ranges and then a Special Exception Permit would need to be obtained. Granger continued his report saying he attended the Tech Transfer meeting and budget work session on January 24, another budget work session on the 31st, and the military outbrief on February 1st. He also attended the joint meeting with the Tourism Advisory Committee (TAC) on the 4th. He then thanked Chris Clarke for recommending someone to fill a vacancy on the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee. With that, he nominated Allen R. Parker to serve on the Committee.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: After the meeting, we obtained further information and clarification about the proposal and approval process for the potential development of the former Cameron Hills Golf Course. First, the application filed with the Department of Community Development is under the name of Freedom Hunt Outdoor Club. The owner of record is 170, LLC which shares an address with Michael Ognek. So although the development project has been identified under various names the Freedom Hunt Outdoor Club is the official name at this time. Second, the application filed was for a campground, not a gun range. Under Proposed Use, the application does list various activities such as "...camping, hiking, wildlife viewing and photography, archery and shooting." But the specific part of the application regarding the Special Exception Permit is for a "campground." Third, the application asks for variances to the Zoning Code. These variances are mostly related to the tent camping that is being proposed. The application asks for the elimination of laundry facilities and portable toilet requirements as well as improved roads. Finally, to further clarify the approval process, the Freedom Hunt Outdoor Club would need to obtain approval for their Special Exception Permit as a campground. This would require a Public Hearing before the Board of Supervisors.]
Cathy Binder began her report by thanking everyone for speaking. She said she read the newspaper article and spoke with Heather Hall, Zoning Administrator and Senior Planner, and confirmed that Granger's earlier correction was right. Binder met with Jonathan Weakley, Service Authority General Manager, on the 25th, attended the Mock Town Hall on the 29th, and attended the Virginia Association of Counties (VACo) Chairperson's Institute where there was positive discussions about King George's use of a Citizen Budget Advisory Committee. On the 24th and 31st she attended budget work sessions and the joint meeting with the TAC on the 4th.
Ruby Brabo's report began with her attending the budget work session on the 24th, a National Association of Counties (NACo) Military and Veterans Affairs Committee meeting on the 28th, and the Mock Town Hall on the 29th. On the 30th she attended a Rural Action Caucus reception and a VACo Board of Directors meeting on the 31st and the budget work session that same evening. On February 1st she attended the military out-brief and on the 4th she attended the joint meeting with the TAC. On the 5th she participated in a conference call with the Governor's Chief Broadband Advisor to discuss plans for broadband in the state.
Brabo thanked everyone for speaking during Public Comment and thanked Mr. Neal for his positive comments on the plantings. She said she has received calls, emails, and comments in person, all praising the plantings. She said the TAC came before the Board and they approved of the idea.
Regarding the proposed gun range, Brabo asked Dr. Neiman Young, County Administrator, if County staff has correctly interpreted the ordinances. Dr. Young responded that the parcels are zoned A1 or A2 and that looking under the ordinances, several uses are allowed by-right and several are listed as requiring a special exception. He said where the ordinance is silent or doesn't specifically mention a use, such as a gun range, that use is not allowed. For it to be allowed, it would need to be added to the zoning ordinance and then allowed by a Special Exception Permit. Eric Gregory, County Attorney, added that the Comprehensive Plan is a part of the zoning scheme for the County but is not a governing document. He said it is a guideline and not binding. In other words, Gregory said, the zoning ordinances are the important ones. Brabo then stated for further clarity on the process that if the zoning ordinances were amended, they would require a public hearing to add gun range as a use and it would apply to the entire County.
Brabo then asked if the Board would give consensus to send a letter of support for broadband in the state instead of using the state's excess budget amounts for state employee bonuses. After some discussion as to how broad or specific to word the letter, a consensus was reached to send a letter that broadly asks for more financial support for broadband.
Brabo asked Dr. Young for an update on the installation of a blinking warning light on Dahlgren Road near the new stoplight at the Caledon Road intersection. Young said he would look into it and update the Board but from the audience somebody said they took a picture of it today and it was installed.
Jeff Bueche thanked everyone for commenting and said unfortunately people too often wait too far along in the process to speak up. He commended everyone for doing that. He continued by stating he attended the budget work sessions on the 24th and 31st as well as the joint meeting with the TAC on the 4th. He thanked the citizens that served on the Citizen Budget Advisory Committee for the County and felt Dr. Young gave a very informative State of the County presentation. On the 25th, Bueche attended the Fire, Rescue, and Emergency Services Awards Banquet. He congratulated the award winners and thanked both the career staff and volunteers that help protect residents every day. On the 31st he attended the County Government Day in the Virginia General Assembly and enjoyed exposing his son to the inner workings of government. Bueche also attended the VACo Chairperson's Institute on the 1st and 2nd. He closed by giving a few thoughts on the budget process including that "every line item has an impact to someone, some department, etc."
The Consent Agenda was approved.
The County Attorney, Eric Gregory, reported on two items. First was a request for a Deed of Easement from Scarlett Cooper for a storm water management facility. Gregory apologized for the late nature of the request but there were delays in the real estate transactions. He said the facility would be the responsibility of the property owner and that if they failed to maintain it, the County could repair it as needed and place a lien on the property to recoup the expenses. The Board approved the easement.
The second half of Gregory's report included various bills that were in the State's House or Senate that impacted localities. He listed several that passed one house, some that died, and some that were delayed. Of those he discussed, he said the ability for localities to tax cigarette sales failed and the legislation improving proffers passed. Brabo asked about the bill to transfer development rights, HB2139. Gregory said it passed the House and was sent to the Senate. He said if it passed there, it would be something the County would need to look at. Brabo asked if it passed would it be mandated. Gregory said no, an ordinance would need to be created to clarify the process. Brabo warned the rest of the Board that this is a potential source of Stafford's explosive growth and that it should be considered carefully if it passes. Gregory agreed that it may not be right for King George.
The Public Hearing regarding the amendment to the Subdivision Ordinances was next. Heather Hall gave a summary presentation of the history, the changes, and the recommendation from the Community Development Department. Nobody made a public comment and the Board approved.
Next was a presentation from Jeff Stonehill, partial owner of Machodoc Creek Marina, on his request to make the area near the Marina a No Wake Zone. He said they have found that because of the Marina's location in the Machodoc Creek, boats speed through the area and cause damage to his customers' boats docked at his location. Stonehill also said it makes fueling boats dangerous. Additionally, he said there is a blind corner coming through the area and he's afraid an accident may occur with boats leaving his boat ramp. He said the State defined No Wake as "slowest possible speed required to maintain steerage and headway" and said buoys would be placed about 50 feet form the dock. He also said that boats cannot stop like cars. Stonehill said he has consulted with various authorities, including the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (DGIF) and said that because King George does not have an existing No Wake Zone, a county ordinance would need to be created. He said that for a No Wake Zone to be created, the applicant, in this case himself, would be required to bear all the costs of installing the buoys and maintaining them. He said the Virginia State Marine Police, DGIF, and even the King George County Sheriff's Office could enforce the No Wake Zone rules.
Granger asked if the steerage and headway was different for different sized boats and how law enforcement could enforce that. Stonehill said there are various factors including tides, wind, and the size or displacement of the boat that would determine the safest speed. He said it would be up to the officer to determine what was safe and what was not.
Binder asked how many buoys needed to be installed. Stonehill said he planned on four but it was ultimately up to DGIF to determine how many are required. He added that many residents further up the creek expressed an interest in expanding the No Wake Zone to include all of the creek. Binder then asked how much it would be policed and how would speeder be ticketed. Stonehill said they have asked for an increased police presence but it has been limited due to a small DGIF staff. He did say that anyone that witnesses a boat speeding in a No Wake Zone could testify to it and the offending boat captain would receive a ticket just like a speeding ticket for car drivers.
Gregory said he had to hand it to Stonehill for doing the research and looking at everything involved. His suggestion was for Stonehill to apply to the Board of Supervisors and submit an application for the new ordinance as well as send an application to DGIF. He said while the application with the state was being reviewed, the County could work on the new ordinance. Gregory said once DGIF approves the application, the County could give Public Notice, hold a Public Hearing, and adopt the new ordinance. He said the Planning Commission wouldn't need to be involved but the state was in charge of the waterways. Brabo told Stonehill he may want to think about including other entities in the No Wake Zone proposal. Gregory reminded her that whoever applies is fiscally responsible for the buoys and he may not want to do that for the entire creek. There was then some confusion over the potential name of the ordinance as Gregory referred to it at the Machodoc Creek No Wake Zone but Brabo said it was called Williams Creek. Which name is correct depends on which documents and maps are reviewed. Generally speaking, Williams Creek begins north of Owens Drive and flows south into Machodoc Creek. It ends prior to the Machodoc Creek Marina. Machodoc Creek and Upper Machodoc Creek begin near the High School and flows generally east into the Potomac River. In the end, Gregory said the Board could tailor the name as desired and with DGIF input.
Next was a presentation by Brad Hudson, Director of Community Development, regarding the Dominion Medical building located next to Big Dog Outfitters. In his presentation he shared photos and information regarding the building's unsafe nature and deterioration. He shared aerial photos taken by Chief Lynd as well as ground level images that easily showed the roof leaking and partially collapsed. He said it was difficult to see in the images but inside the building were records that were presumed to be medical records and that mold was growing throughout the building. Hudson also shared the timeline of notices that were attached to the building as well as published in the newspaper. He said all correspondence sent to the building's owner were returned by the Post Office. Hudson's bottom-line request was for $25,000 to remove the building down to the concrete slab. He said the expense would be recouped by placing a lien on the property.
After the presentation, Brabo asked if the building was attached to the Big Dog Outfitters store next to it. Hudson said they share a masonry firewall but that wall served as the property line. Brabo asked if the buildings were owned by the same person and Hudson said they had different owners. Brabo said that even though Hudson's research said the County was not required to shred any medical records found inside, she wanted to do the right thing to ensure they were destroyed properly. Binder agreed. Brabo asked if the Treasurer or the Commissioner of Revenue would be able to waive the lien and Gregory said no, they would not be involved in that transaction because it was the County placing the lien and the County that had the right to waive the lien. Gregory further clarified by saying the County in this case was defined as the Board of Supervisors. The Board approved Hudson's request for funds.
Next was the amended portion of the Agenda, Ryan Gandy's presentation on the Fredericksburg Regional Alliance (FRA). Gandy gave numerous facts and figures, both written and in chart form, on how the FRA was funded, how their expenses broke down by each locality, and how the FRA compared to other regional economic development groups. After the presentation, Granger said he serves on the FRA Board and never had any concerns about the value that they provide to King George. He did appreciate Gandy putting everything together.
Brabo agreed that it was nice to see all of the information. While she meant no disrespect to Curry Roberts, FRA President, she felt his presentation would have been a marketing pitch whereas Gandy's presentation looked more at how money was utilized. She said it appears to her, the largest benefit is the access to the data and research that allows staff to be freed up for other tasks. She did question why the FRA only joined the Fredericksburg Chamber of Commerce and not the King George Chamber of Commerce.
Brabo also called attention to the fact that it appeared Fredericksburg received the bulk of FRA's spending. Each locality contributes one dollar ($1.00) per capita to the FRA so with roughly the same population, Fredericksburg and King George contribute roughly the same amounts in 2017 (Fredericksburg contributed $29,213 while King George contributed $24,739). However, of the spending budget to each locality, Fredericksburg was allocated $971,249 while King George was given $164,081. This equates to King George getting a return on their investment of roughly 563%, the lowest among the five member localities in the FRA. Fredericksburg in turn gets the highest rate of return at 3,225%.
Gandy said it would be up to the Supervisors to determine how much is expended with FRA in the County's budget. Brabo thanked him for bringing all of the information to their attention and said again that it was great information to have. Granger added that as the FRA representative, he could sit down with Gandy and Curry Roberts to discuss how the FRA could maybe focus more on King George. Brabo also pointed out that although it's great to have a regional partnership like this, in the end the partners were competitors when it came to economic development. Bueche thanked Gandy for his hard work and asked Dr. Young to supply this information to the citizens serving on the Budget Advisory Committee.
Next was a request from the Department of Finance to transfer funds from the General Fund to the Capital Fund as it related to the debt mitigation payment. The Board approved.
Chris Clarke, Director of the Parks and Recreation Department, then presented his request to update the fees associated with the use of the Citizen's Center. He said the current fees date back to 2010 and possibly beyond that. He said his first few days on the job he was confused by how much a customer had to pay for rental fees, cleaning fees, security deposits, and more. To end the confusion and to make the rates more reasonable to cover costs, he presented an updated fee schedule. He gave a few examples showing how modest the increases were. For an eight hour wedding reception, he said the current fee would be $406 while the new fee would be $460. He said this is still one of the cheapest rates in the area with Hopyard charging $800 for the same event and White Oak Fire Department charging $500. He said both of those venues don't clean while the staff at the Citizen's Center does. He also said events that would involve alcohol would have a larger fee. In the end, he said the Citizen's Center would still be the cheapest place to rent but the goal was to increase fees to create more revenue and decrease the cost to residents. Clarke also clarified that if the new fees were approved, they would not impact reservations that have already been made but would only be for future rentals. The Board approved the new rates.
Dr. Neiman Young, County Administrator, was next to present his request for funding for an outside vendor to study the odor complaints at the landfill. He said he received proposals from several firms. Granger said the landfill was in his district and would appreciate everyone's support on this. He said as with the FRA, he felt this was the Board doing their due diligence on behalf of the residents of King George. The Board approved.
Next was a request to write a letter of thanks for Hap Connors and his contributions over numerous years to the Commonwealth Transportation Board, especially as it related to the SMART SCALE projects. Consensus was given.
Dr. Young then gave his report on a letter from the Virginia Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) stating that CROPS, Inc. had requested increasing the amount of land they can apply biosolids to. Because the request was greater than 50% of the existing land used, DEQ must hold a Public Meeting to get comments from residents. DEQ was asking for help from the County in coordinating the event. Consensus was given.
The Board went into Closed Session at 9:25pm and invited Eric Gregory, County Attorney, and Dr. Neiman Young, County Administrator, to attend.
The Board returned from Closed Session at 9:58pm.
The meeting adjourned at 9:58pm.
Meeting Attendees:
Jeff Bueche (Chairman, Board of Supervisors)
Richard Granger (Board of Supervisors)
Ruby Brabo (Board of Supervisors)
Cathy Binder (Board of Supervisors)
Neiman Young (County Administrator)
Eric Gregory (County Attorney)
Absent:
John Jenkins (Board of Supervisors)
Meeting Agenda
Next Meeting:
The Board of Supervisors will next meet on February 13, 2019 at 6:30 pm at the Revercomb Building.
Previous Meeting:
Read about the previous Board of Supervisors Meeting.
The Board of Supervisors began their first meeting of February at 7:24pm.
There was an amendment to the Agenda to add a presentation by Ryan Gandy regarding the King George Stakeholder Report on the partnership with the Fredericksburg Regional Alliance (FRA).
The Public Comment portion of the meeting began with Jerry Courtney. He said he lived about a mile as the crow flies from the former Cameron Hills Golf Course property, was a Navy veteran, and currently worked in the acoustics field. He wanted to give a demonstration, without teaching a class, about how sound can intensify. Giving the example of the King George High School Royal Regiment Marching Band at a football game, he asked everyone to imagine a student performing a solo. He then asked everyone to imagine the entire band performing. He said this simple example explains how sound can amplify and intensify. He then compared this to a single lane on a gun range being used versus multiple lanes being used at once. Courtney said there are formulas and calculators available online that can give further examples on how this process works. He said he reviewed the application from the Ognek brothers and could see where investors had tried to mitigate the concerns. He continued by saying there are multiple studies available that show gun ranges have a negative impact on home values and that he feels bad for those that live closer to the potential gun range. He closed by asking the Supervisors to please take into account the surrounding residents and vote against the proposal.
Next to speak was Dave Dooley who also wanted to voice his concerns over the proposed gun range. He said the Board has heard from several people on Salem Church Road and that may have minimized how broad the impact would be. He said he was a little closer to the golf course than the previous speaker. Dooley said during the winter, he can hear duck hunting on the Rappahannock River, nearly two miles away, from inside his house. He wanted people to understand that this wasn't just a Salem Church Road issue, that it was a broader issue. He said he's been in the County for 25 years and in the Rollins Fork area for more than ten. He said he wasn't anti-gun or even anti-development. Dooley said hunting and target shooting were part of country living and it wasn't a problem when it happened as a part of the natural life of the area. He said most people that hunt and target practice are respectful to their neighbors. He didn't want to say the business was going to be disrespectful but did feel it would have a negative impact on the area. Dooley closed by thanking the Supervisors for their efforts for the County and asked that they keep the Rollins Fork area in mind.
John McCullough was next to speak against the gun range. He kept his comments short by saying nobody could be more pro-gun than him but he couldn't imagine living there and hearing nothing but gunfire all weekend long.
Rob Neal was next to speak, again repeating his stance against the potential gun range. He cited a recent Free Lance-Star article where Richard Granger was quoted as saying the Comprehensive Plan would need to be revised to make gun ranges acceptable and a special exception permit would need to be obtained. Neal said the article also quoted the Ogneks as saying their application will demonstrate change isn't needed. He then directed his thanks to Ruby Brabo for her comments in the article about not wanting something like this in her backyard. Neal said he wanted to thank her for "publicly stating what you feel." Neal then moved off the topic of the gun range and said he recently noticed the plantings in the median of Kings Highway (Route 3). He said he was recently invited to attend an economic seminar and one of the things that came up in the discussion was how to help the County economically. Neal said he appreciated them for making the County more beautiful. Neal closed out his comments by telling Jeff Bueche the guys at the Convenience Center were awesome.
John Jenkins was absent.
Richard Granger began his report by thanking everyone for coming out to speak. He thanked Mr. Courtney for his real world example of how sound intensifies. Regarding the potential gun range, Granger said he needed to make a correction. He said the County Ordinances would need to be changes to allow gun ranges and then a Special Exception Permit would need to be obtained. Granger continued his report saying he attended the Tech Transfer meeting and budget work session on January 24, another budget work session on the 31st, and the military outbrief on February 1st. He also attended the joint meeting with the Tourism Advisory Committee (TAC) on the 4th. He then thanked Chris Clarke for recommending someone to fill a vacancy on the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee. With that, he nominated Allen R. Parker to serve on the Committee.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: After the meeting, we obtained further information and clarification about the proposal and approval process for the potential development of the former Cameron Hills Golf Course. First, the application filed with the Department of Community Development is under the name of Freedom Hunt Outdoor Club. The owner of record is 170, LLC which shares an address with Michael Ognek. So although the development project has been identified under various names the Freedom Hunt Outdoor Club is the official name at this time. Second, the application filed was for a campground, not a gun range. Under Proposed Use, the application does list various activities such as "...camping, hiking, wildlife viewing and photography, archery and shooting." But the specific part of the application regarding the Special Exception Permit is for a "campground." Third, the application asks for variances to the Zoning Code. These variances are mostly related to the tent camping that is being proposed. The application asks for the elimination of laundry facilities and portable toilet requirements as well as improved roads. Finally, to further clarify the approval process, the Freedom Hunt Outdoor Club would need to obtain approval for their Special Exception Permit as a campground. This would require a Public Hearing before the Board of Supervisors.]
Cathy Binder began her report by thanking everyone for speaking. She said she read the newspaper article and spoke with Heather Hall, Zoning Administrator and Senior Planner, and confirmed that Granger's earlier correction was right. Binder met with Jonathan Weakley, Service Authority General Manager, on the 25th, attended the Mock Town Hall on the 29th, and attended the Virginia Association of Counties (VACo) Chairperson's Institute where there was positive discussions about King George's use of a Citizen Budget Advisory Committee. On the 24th and 31st she attended budget work sessions and the joint meeting with the TAC on the 4th.
Ruby Brabo's report began with her attending the budget work session on the 24th, a National Association of Counties (NACo) Military and Veterans Affairs Committee meeting on the 28th, and the Mock Town Hall on the 29th. On the 30th she attended a Rural Action Caucus reception and a VACo Board of Directors meeting on the 31st and the budget work session that same evening. On February 1st she attended the military out-brief and on the 4th she attended the joint meeting with the TAC. On the 5th she participated in a conference call with the Governor's Chief Broadband Advisor to discuss plans for broadband in the state.
Brabo thanked everyone for speaking during Public Comment and thanked Mr. Neal for his positive comments on the plantings. She said she has received calls, emails, and comments in person, all praising the plantings. She said the TAC came before the Board and they approved of the idea.
Regarding the proposed gun range, Brabo asked Dr. Neiman Young, County Administrator, if County staff has correctly interpreted the ordinances. Dr. Young responded that the parcels are zoned A1 or A2 and that looking under the ordinances, several uses are allowed by-right and several are listed as requiring a special exception. He said where the ordinance is silent or doesn't specifically mention a use, such as a gun range, that use is not allowed. For it to be allowed, it would need to be added to the zoning ordinance and then allowed by a Special Exception Permit. Eric Gregory, County Attorney, added that the Comprehensive Plan is a part of the zoning scheme for the County but is not a governing document. He said it is a guideline and not binding. In other words, Gregory said, the zoning ordinances are the important ones. Brabo then stated for further clarity on the process that if the zoning ordinances were amended, they would require a public hearing to add gun range as a use and it would apply to the entire County.
Brabo then asked if the Board would give consensus to send a letter of support for broadband in the state instead of using the state's excess budget amounts for state employee bonuses. After some discussion as to how broad or specific to word the letter, a consensus was reached to send a letter that broadly asks for more financial support for broadband.
Brabo asked Dr. Young for an update on the installation of a blinking warning light on Dahlgren Road near the new stoplight at the Caledon Road intersection. Young said he would look into it and update the Board but from the audience somebody said they took a picture of it today and it was installed.
Jeff Bueche thanked everyone for commenting and said unfortunately people too often wait too far along in the process to speak up. He commended everyone for doing that. He continued by stating he attended the budget work sessions on the 24th and 31st as well as the joint meeting with the TAC on the 4th. He thanked the citizens that served on the Citizen Budget Advisory Committee for the County and felt Dr. Young gave a very informative State of the County presentation. On the 25th, Bueche attended the Fire, Rescue, and Emergency Services Awards Banquet. He congratulated the award winners and thanked both the career staff and volunteers that help protect residents every day. On the 31st he attended the County Government Day in the Virginia General Assembly and enjoyed exposing his son to the inner workings of government. Bueche also attended the VACo Chairperson's Institute on the 1st and 2nd. He closed by giving a few thoughts on the budget process including that "every line item has an impact to someone, some department, etc."
The Consent Agenda was approved.
The County Attorney, Eric Gregory, reported on two items. First was a request for a Deed of Easement from Scarlett Cooper for a storm water management facility. Gregory apologized for the late nature of the request but there were delays in the real estate transactions. He said the facility would be the responsibility of the property owner and that if they failed to maintain it, the County could repair it as needed and place a lien on the property to recoup the expenses. The Board approved the easement.
The second half of Gregory's report included various bills that were in the State's House or Senate that impacted localities. He listed several that passed one house, some that died, and some that were delayed. Of those he discussed, he said the ability for localities to tax cigarette sales failed and the legislation improving proffers passed. Brabo asked about the bill to transfer development rights, HB2139. Gregory said it passed the House and was sent to the Senate. He said if it passed there, it would be something the County would need to look at. Brabo asked if it passed would it be mandated. Gregory said no, an ordinance would need to be created to clarify the process. Brabo warned the rest of the Board that this is a potential source of Stafford's explosive growth and that it should be considered carefully if it passes. Gregory agreed that it may not be right for King George.
The Public Hearing regarding the amendment to the Subdivision Ordinances was next. Heather Hall gave a summary presentation of the history, the changes, and the recommendation from the Community Development Department. Nobody made a public comment and the Board approved.
Next was a presentation from Jeff Stonehill, partial owner of Machodoc Creek Marina, on his request to make the area near the Marina a No Wake Zone. He said they have found that because of the Marina's location in the Machodoc Creek, boats speed through the area and cause damage to his customers' boats docked at his location. Stonehill also said it makes fueling boats dangerous. Additionally, he said there is a blind corner coming through the area and he's afraid an accident may occur with boats leaving his boat ramp. He said the State defined No Wake as "slowest possible speed required to maintain steerage and headway" and said buoys would be placed about 50 feet form the dock. He also said that boats cannot stop like cars. Stonehill said he has consulted with various authorities, including the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (DGIF) and said that because King George does not have an existing No Wake Zone, a county ordinance would need to be created. He said that for a No Wake Zone to be created, the applicant, in this case himself, would be required to bear all the costs of installing the buoys and maintaining them. He said the Virginia State Marine Police, DGIF, and even the King George County Sheriff's Office could enforce the No Wake Zone rules.
Granger asked if the steerage and headway was different for different sized boats and how law enforcement could enforce that. Stonehill said there are various factors including tides, wind, and the size or displacement of the boat that would determine the safest speed. He said it would be up to the officer to determine what was safe and what was not.
Binder asked how many buoys needed to be installed. Stonehill said he planned on four but it was ultimately up to DGIF to determine how many are required. He added that many residents further up the creek expressed an interest in expanding the No Wake Zone to include all of the creek. Binder then asked how much it would be policed and how would speeder be ticketed. Stonehill said they have asked for an increased police presence but it has been limited due to a small DGIF staff. He did say that anyone that witnesses a boat speeding in a No Wake Zone could testify to it and the offending boat captain would receive a ticket just like a speeding ticket for car drivers.
Gregory said he had to hand it to Stonehill for doing the research and looking at everything involved. His suggestion was for Stonehill to apply to the Board of Supervisors and submit an application for the new ordinance as well as send an application to DGIF. He said while the application with the state was being reviewed, the County could work on the new ordinance. Gregory said once DGIF approves the application, the County could give Public Notice, hold a Public Hearing, and adopt the new ordinance. He said the Planning Commission wouldn't need to be involved but the state was in charge of the waterways. Brabo told Stonehill he may want to think about including other entities in the No Wake Zone proposal. Gregory reminded her that whoever applies is fiscally responsible for the buoys and he may not want to do that for the entire creek. There was then some confusion over the potential name of the ordinance as Gregory referred to it at the Machodoc Creek No Wake Zone but Brabo said it was called Williams Creek. Which name is correct depends on which documents and maps are reviewed. Generally speaking, Williams Creek begins north of Owens Drive and flows south into Machodoc Creek. It ends prior to the Machodoc Creek Marina. Machodoc Creek and Upper Machodoc Creek begin near the High School and flows generally east into the Potomac River. In the end, Gregory said the Board could tailor the name as desired and with DGIF input.
Next was a presentation by Brad Hudson, Director of Community Development, regarding the Dominion Medical building located next to Big Dog Outfitters. In his presentation he shared photos and information regarding the building's unsafe nature and deterioration. He shared aerial photos taken by Chief Lynd as well as ground level images that easily showed the roof leaking and partially collapsed. He said it was difficult to see in the images but inside the building were records that were presumed to be medical records and that mold was growing throughout the building. Hudson also shared the timeline of notices that were attached to the building as well as published in the newspaper. He said all correspondence sent to the building's owner were returned by the Post Office. Hudson's bottom-line request was for $25,000 to remove the building down to the concrete slab. He said the expense would be recouped by placing a lien on the property.
After the presentation, Brabo asked if the building was attached to the Big Dog Outfitters store next to it. Hudson said they share a masonry firewall but that wall served as the property line. Brabo asked if the buildings were owned by the same person and Hudson said they had different owners. Brabo said that even though Hudson's research said the County was not required to shred any medical records found inside, she wanted to do the right thing to ensure they were destroyed properly. Binder agreed. Brabo asked if the Treasurer or the Commissioner of Revenue would be able to waive the lien and Gregory said no, they would not be involved in that transaction because it was the County placing the lien and the County that had the right to waive the lien. Gregory further clarified by saying the County in this case was defined as the Board of Supervisors. The Board approved Hudson's request for funds.
Next was the amended portion of the Agenda, Ryan Gandy's presentation on the Fredericksburg Regional Alliance (FRA). Gandy gave numerous facts and figures, both written and in chart form, on how the FRA was funded, how their expenses broke down by each locality, and how the FRA compared to other regional economic development groups. After the presentation, Granger said he serves on the FRA Board and never had any concerns about the value that they provide to King George. He did appreciate Gandy putting everything together.
Brabo agreed that it was nice to see all of the information. While she meant no disrespect to Curry Roberts, FRA President, she felt his presentation would have been a marketing pitch whereas Gandy's presentation looked more at how money was utilized. She said it appears to her, the largest benefit is the access to the data and research that allows staff to be freed up for other tasks. She did question why the FRA only joined the Fredericksburg Chamber of Commerce and not the King George Chamber of Commerce.
Brabo also called attention to the fact that it appeared Fredericksburg received the bulk of FRA's spending. Each locality contributes one dollar ($1.00) per capita to the FRA so with roughly the same population, Fredericksburg and King George contribute roughly the same amounts in 2017 (Fredericksburg contributed $29,213 while King George contributed $24,739). However, of the spending budget to each locality, Fredericksburg was allocated $971,249 while King George was given $164,081. This equates to King George getting a return on their investment of roughly 563%, the lowest among the five member localities in the FRA. Fredericksburg in turn gets the highest rate of return at 3,225%.
Gandy said it would be up to the Supervisors to determine how much is expended with FRA in the County's budget. Brabo thanked him for bringing all of the information to their attention and said again that it was great information to have. Granger added that as the FRA representative, he could sit down with Gandy and Curry Roberts to discuss how the FRA could maybe focus more on King George. Brabo also pointed out that although it's great to have a regional partnership like this, in the end the partners were competitors when it came to economic development. Bueche thanked Gandy for his hard work and asked Dr. Young to supply this information to the citizens serving on the Budget Advisory Committee.
Next was a request from the Department of Finance to transfer funds from the General Fund to the Capital Fund as it related to the debt mitigation payment. The Board approved.
Chris Clarke, Director of the Parks and Recreation Department, then presented his request to update the fees associated with the use of the Citizen's Center. He said the current fees date back to 2010 and possibly beyond that. He said his first few days on the job he was confused by how much a customer had to pay for rental fees, cleaning fees, security deposits, and more. To end the confusion and to make the rates more reasonable to cover costs, he presented an updated fee schedule. He gave a few examples showing how modest the increases were. For an eight hour wedding reception, he said the current fee would be $406 while the new fee would be $460. He said this is still one of the cheapest rates in the area with Hopyard charging $800 for the same event and White Oak Fire Department charging $500. He said both of those venues don't clean while the staff at the Citizen's Center does. He also said events that would involve alcohol would have a larger fee. In the end, he said the Citizen's Center would still be the cheapest place to rent but the goal was to increase fees to create more revenue and decrease the cost to residents. Clarke also clarified that if the new fees were approved, they would not impact reservations that have already been made but would only be for future rentals. The Board approved the new rates.
Dr. Neiman Young, County Administrator, was next to present his request for funding for an outside vendor to study the odor complaints at the landfill. He said he received proposals from several firms. Granger said the landfill was in his district and would appreciate everyone's support on this. He said as with the FRA, he felt this was the Board doing their due diligence on behalf of the residents of King George. The Board approved.
Next was a request to write a letter of thanks for Hap Connors and his contributions over numerous years to the Commonwealth Transportation Board, especially as it related to the SMART SCALE projects. Consensus was given.
Dr. Young then gave his report on a letter from the Virginia Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) stating that CROPS, Inc. had requested increasing the amount of land they can apply biosolids to. Because the request was greater than 50% of the existing land used, DEQ must hold a Public Meeting to get comments from residents. DEQ was asking for help from the County in coordinating the event. Consensus was given.
The Board went into Closed Session at 9:25pm and invited Eric Gregory, County Attorney, and Dr. Neiman Young, County Administrator, to attend.
The Board returned from Closed Session at 9:58pm.
The meeting adjourned at 9:58pm.
Meeting Attendees:
Jeff Bueche (Chairman, Board of Supervisors)
Richard Granger (Board of Supervisors)
Ruby Brabo (Board of Supervisors)
Cathy Binder (Board of Supervisors)
Neiman Young (County Administrator)
Eric Gregory (County Attorney)
Absent:
John Jenkins (Board of Supervisors)
Meeting Agenda
Next Meeting:
The Board of Supervisors will next meet on February 13, 2019 at 6:30 pm at the Revercomb Building.
Previous Meeting:
Read about the previous Board of Supervisors Meeting.
Monday, February 11, 2019
2019-02-05 - Service Authority Meeting Notes
by Neil Richard
The Service Authority Board of Directors opened their February 5th meeting at 6:30pm.
There were no amendments to the Agenda.
Yvonne Richard was the only one to speak during Public Comment. She began by saying thank you to everyone for serving on the Board. Her suggestion was to give customers more than twenty minutes notice when performing maintenance on water lines. She said some people may be negatively impacted if they set a dishwasher to run during the day and service is interrupted [EDITOR'S NOTE - Neil Richard, a co-founder of Project94, is the spouse of Yvonne Richard.].
Chris Werle began his Board Report by saying he had reviewed and made comments on the draft feasibility study that was being created on the decommissioning of the Purkins Corner and Oakland Park Wastewater Treatment Plants (WWTPs). He said his comments were mostly focused on the upgrades, the costs, and the new ammonia regulations coming in the future. He said the County Engineer, Travis Quesenberry, also gave his comments as well. He reminded the Board that at a previous meeting, they said an update from Draper Aden would be done at an upcoming budget work session but he felt a meeting was necessary before that to wade through the technical comments first. Werle said Jonathan Weakley, General Manager, would schedule that meeting soon. On January 25th, Werle said he met with Weakley to discuss the upcoming budget work sessions.
Richard Granger apologized in his Board Report that he still had not found anyone to serve as his representative on the Citizen Budget Advisory Committee. Granger said Mrs. Richard, who was still in the audience, volunteered even though she did not live in his district. With that, the Board approved Mrs. Richard to serve on the Citizen Budget Advisory Committee for the Service Authority.
Cathy Binder had no Board Report.
Ruby Brabo's Board Report began with an update from a meeting she held on January 29th with Cliff Parker from AQUA. She said he presented some interesting charts and data on the average water and sewer rates across Virginia that may help when the Board looks at rates in the future. Brabo said that, with apologies to Werle and Mike Bennett, Chairman, that going forward Binder, Vice-Chair, should be in as many meetings as possible as this was her training year. Brabo said she understood Werle's role on the Board but felt Binder should be included whenever practically possible.
Bennett said he had a brief discussion before the meeting about that and said they would do everything possible to keep Binder in mind and trained for her to assume the role of Chair next year. Bennett said the Draper Aden report had a fair amount of engineering content so Werle and the County Engineer would understand it better.
Werle said that Binder should be at that meeting but Brabo said that three Board members can't be present as that would constitute a meeting. Brabo said she was just looking to include Binder in meetings when feasible. Bennett said they definitely wanted to get Binder up to speed.
Mike Bennett began his Board Report by thanking Werle for his two years serving as Chairman. He said there was obviously a rocky period of time in the past but thanked him for the incredible amount of time he put into the organization. Bennett said the only person that probably understands how much time Werle has put into this is Mrs. Werle. Bennett again thanked him and said he looked forward to working with Werle in the coming years.
Bennett continued his report by saying he met with Weakley about a variety of issues including staffing, Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) compliance, pump stations, and more. Bennett said he is aware of how a lengthy Service Authority meeting impacts his fellow Board members that serve on the Board of Supervisors as well as those members in the audience waiting for that meeting. Bennett said that he still wants to remain transparent and get the job done but felt that if some things could be accomplished in budget work sessions, they should try to do that. He cautioned that he didn't want to do anything inappropriate but there were certain discussions that were directly tied to the budget that could be handled. His big example was the feasibility of decommissioning the Purkins Corner and Oakland Park WWTP as well as pump stations. He said both issues are complicated and very expensive but he felt it could help save time in future meetings by discussing them in work sessions. The rest of the Board seemed to agree.
Bennett concluded his report by thanking everyone that volunteered for the Citizen Budget Advisory Committee and that Weakley needed their contact info to ensure they were available on the scheduled dates and to be able to share material before the meeting.
The Consent Agenda was approved.
The County Attorney, Eric Gregory, had no report.
Jonathon Weakley, General Manager, then began his report by thanking Mrs. Richard for volunteering to serve as well. He also said the KGALERT system was something they're becoming accustomed to and that more advanced notice is certainly best. He gave the recent example of the Walnut Hill connection that went out the night before scheduled work was to begin.
Weakley continued with an update on the water system. He had a meeting with the Virginia Department of Health (VDH) on January 24th, repairs were made at the Arnold's Corner well house, and switches were replaced in Cleydael. He also added that in making their repairs in Cleydael, they tested the Peppermill well to ensure it could maintain pressure in the system. Weakley also said required survey letters were submitted to VDH and that the Walnut Hill water tie-in between St. Paul's/Owens and Dahlgren would be made February 6th.
Deviating from his written report, Weakley said they have scheduled meetings with administration and maintenance at King George High School to investigate reports of intermittent discoloration in the water. He said this was also an ideal time to build rapport with all interested parties as well as ensure there is a owner/agent document in place so all parties know their responsibilities.
Weakley then began to give an update on the sewer system. He said that Fairview Beach and Dahlgren WWTPs have nutrient requirements for the permit as well as the Water Quality Improvement Fund (WQIF) grant each facility received. He said that while Fairview Beach WWTP has the same requirements in both the permit and the grant, Dahlgren has a stricter requirement for the grant than the permit. Weakley said the Total Nitrogen (TN) was limited to 4 mg/l by permit but the WQIF grant required 3 mg/l. He said within the grant language, if limits are exceeded, DEQ can assess a fee but he isn't sure what that fee amount would be.
For historical context, DEQ issued a letter in March 2018 stating that the Dahlgren WWTP exceeded allowed limits for Total Phosphorus (TP). The limit in the grant was 0.30 mg/l and the annual average was 0.44 mg/l. DEQ assessed a rate of $8,500 per 0.1 mg/l overage for a total fee of $11,900. That same month, Fairview Beach WWTP has a similar fee assessed for $3,976.
Bennett asked if he had any thoughts about which took a priority, the grant or the permit. Eric Gregory, County Attorney, said the permit is the legal authority while the grant will only govern funds for a project. Bennett wondered if there was a way to make the limits the same and asked Weakley if he had seen this before. Weakley said he hasn't really seen this much before. Gregory added that often the grant is to fund equipment upgrades to get a certain level or reading above the permit and when it falls below, then the funds could be impacted. Gregory said that has happened before. Werle added the regulations and guidelines say they can collect funds. Weakley said he was happy to see if there's any wiggle room or if they can get them to match. Gregory agreed that it was certainly worth a try.
Weakley continued his report stating new operating procedures and manuals were being completed, a sampler was installed at Purkins Corner WWTP, and an algae evaluation was being completed. He also said pump stations were continuing to be an issue noting that there were two sanitary sewer overflows recently. He said both were reported as required to DEQ but the pump failures and lack of redundancy were an issue. Weakley said he didn't like coming to the Board with reports like this but he was being honest and transparent. He did give more positive news with revenue coming in with connections in Hopyard. Werle added that Ryan Homes built 41 homes last year and were on track to build more than that this year. Werle also said that Hazel Homes is working on the infrastructure in the final three sections for the remaining 450 homes. Weakley said it helps the bottom line.
Weakley also thanked Dr. Young, County Administrator, and Travis Quesenberry for their help with the decommissioning proposal and the utility plan submission. Weakley said two tampering fee letters were sent, hiring wastewater operations staff is ongoing, and meetings on the feasibility study for decommissioning are planned. The meeting for the feasibility study was discussed at length to determine who could and who should attend the meeting. With only two Board of Director members being allowed to attend, the timing of the meeting, and the technical knowledge needed, the Board agreed that Werle would attend the first meeting and that Binder would attend meetings after that. Also invited were Dr. Young and Travis Quesenberry.
Weakley also said that a billing issue related to the encryption codes for water meters was discovered and resolved. He said about 70 meters were not billing correctly and those customers would be put on a payment plan. Weakley said he has already reached out to the Finance Department to develop a new quality control process to ensure this doesn't occur again.
Brabo asked about the water systems being combined and what the benefit would be for combining them under one permit. Weakley explained that it would save money in the end because of the reduction in sampling, lab analysis, and correspondence. Brabo also said that in the past, the General Manager would provide the Board monthly updates on the current revenue and where it tracked with the projected revenue to see if the Service Authority would meet it's budget. Weakley said he would gather the information for a future meeting.
Bennett then discussed the pump issues at some length. He said the issue was complicated and that most pump stations should have two pumps. Weakley agreed that most larger stations have two. Bennett said the problem with ours was that we only had one working pump. Similar to the earlier, and still on-going, issues with having the correct number of wells working or available for use, the pump stations need redundancy. He said DEQ took special notice of this lack of redundancy and may continue to focus on it in the future. Bennett said we don't know what DEQ will require but wanted to give the Board and customers a preview of coming attractions but said "it may be a horror movie." He continued by saying it would cost a lot of money to get them up and running but they're hopeful DEQ will let them phase it in over time so there wouldn't be such a blow to the bottom line.
Bennett said he talked to Weakley over the phone a few weeks ago and asked him how it was going being the General Manager. Bennett said Weakley told him he loved a challenge "but man, this has a lot of challenges." Bennett said that was dead honest and we're here to help. Bennett then spoke to Mrs. Richard, who was still in the audience, that he didn't respond to her public comment because he felt like, with all due respect, it was a no-brainer that more notice should be given.
Bennett made two final points. First, he felt that Weakley should give a State of the Union of sorts for the Service Authority. Bennett said Weakley would have a fresh look on things and it may help. Bennett said he's been impressed so far with Weakley's performance, noting that he recently caught an issue where a vendor had over billed them. Bennett's second point was surrounding Weakley's power to change job descriptions and pay. Bennett wanted to know how much the Board was involved with that. Brabo said the only employee the Board oversees is Weakley. She said it was up to Weakley to run his shop how he saw fit. Regarding pay, Brabo said Weakley would need to put it in his budget and bring it before the Board for approval.
There was no Closed Session.
With that, the meeting adjourned at 7:20pm.
Meeting Attendees:
Christopher Werle (Board of Directors)
Jonathon Weakley (General Manager of Service Authority)
Richard Granger (Board of Supervisors)
Michael Bennett (Chairman, Citizen)
Ruby Brabo (Board of Supervisors)
Cathy Binder (Board of Supervisors)
Neiman Young (County Administrator)
Eric Gregory (County Attorney)
Meeting Agenda
Next Meeting:
The Service Authority will next meet on February 11, 2019 at 6:30 pm at the Revercomb Building.
Previous Meeting:
Read about the previous Service Authority Meeting.
The Service Authority Board of Directors opened their February 5th meeting at 6:30pm.
There were no amendments to the Agenda.
Yvonne Richard was the only one to speak during Public Comment. She began by saying thank you to everyone for serving on the Board. Her suggestion was to give customers more than twenty minutes notice when performing maintenance on water lines. She said some people may be negatively impacted if they set a dishwasher to run during the day and service is interrupted [EDITOR'S NOTE - Neil Richard, a co-founder of Project94, is the spouse of Yvonne Richard.].
Chris Werle began his Board Report by saying he had reviewed and made comments on the draft feasibility study that was being created on the decommissioning of the Purkins Corner and Oakland Park Wastewater Treatment Plants (WWTPs). He said his comments were mostly focused on the upgrades, the costs, and the new ammonia regulations coming in the future. He said the County Engineer, Travis Quesenberry, also gave his comments as well. He reminded the Board that at a previous meeting, they said an update from Draper Aden would be done at an upcoming budget work session but he felt a meeting was necessary before that to wade through the technical comments first. Werle said Jonathan Weakley, General Manager, would schedule that meeting soon. On January 25th, Werle said he met with Weakley to discuss the upcoming budget work sessions.
Richard Granger apologized in his Board Report that he still had not found anyone to serve as his representative on the Citizen Budget Advisory Committee. Granger said Mrs. Richard, who was still in the audience, volunteered even though she did not live in his district. With that, the Board approved Mrs. Richard to serve on the Citizen Budget Advisory Committee for the Service Authority.
Cathy Binder had no Board Report.
Ruby Brabo's Board Report began with an update from a meeting she held on January 29th with Cliff Parker from AQUA. She said he presented some interesting charts and data on the average water and sewer rates across Virginia that may help when the Board looks at rates in the future. Brabo said that, with apologies to Werle and Mike Bennett, Chairman, that going forward Binder, Vice-Chair, should be in as many meetings as possible as this was her training year. Brabo said she understood Werle's role on the Board but felt Binder should be included whenever practically possible.
Bennett said he had a brief discussion before the meeting about that and said they would do everything possible to keep Binder in mind and trained for her to assume the role of Chair next year. Bennett said the Draper Aden report had a fair amount of engineering content so Werle and the County Engineer would understand it better.
Werle said that Binder should be at that meeting but Brabo said that three Board members can't be present as that would constitute a meeting. Brabo said she was just looking to include Binder in meetings when feasible. Bennett said they definitely wanted to get Binder up to speed.
Mike Bennett began his Board Report by thanking Werle for his two years serving as Chairman. He said there was obviously a rocky period of time in the past but thanked him for the incredible amount of time he put into the organization. Bennett said the only person that probably understands how much time Werle has put into this is Mrs. Werle. Bennett again thanked him and said he looked forward to working with Werle in the coming years.
Bennett continued his report by saying he met with Weakley about a variety of issues including staffing, Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) compliance, pump stations, and more. Bennett said he is aware of how a lengthy Service Authority meeting impacts his fellow Board members that serve on the Board of Supervisors as well as those members in the audience waiting for that meeting. Bennett said that he still wants to remain transparent and get the job done but felt that if some things could be accomplished in budget work sessions, they should try to do that. He cautioned that he didn't want to do anything inappropriate but there were certain discussions that were directly tied to the budget that could be handled. His big example was the feasibility of decommissioning the Purkins Corner and Oakland Park WWTP as well as pump stations. He said both issues are complicated and very expensive but he felt it could help save time in future meetings by discussing them in work sessions. The rest of the Board seemed to agree.
Bennett concluded his report by thanking everyone that volunteered for the Citizen Budget Advisory Committee and that Weakley needed their contact info to ensure they were available on the scheduled dates and to be able to share material before the meeting.
The Consent Agenda was approved.
The County Attorney, Eric Gregory, had no report.
Jonathon Weakley, General Manager, then began his report by thanking Mrs. Richard for volunteering to serve as well. He also said the KGALERT system was something they're becoming accustomed to and that more advanced notice is certainly best. He gave the recent example of the Walnut Hill connection that went out the night before scheduled work was to begin.
Weakley continued with an update on the water system. He had a meeting with the Virginia Department of Health (VDH) on January 24th, repairs were made at the Arnold's Corner well house, and switches were replaced in Cleydael. He also added that in making their repairs in Cleydael, they tested the Peppermill well to ensure it could maintain pressure in the system. Weakley also said required survey letters were submitted to VDH and that the Walnut Hill water tie-in between St. Paul's/Owens and Dahlgren would be made February 6th.
Deviating from his written report, Weakley said they have scheduled meetings with administration and maintenance at King George High School to investigate reports of intermittent discoloration in the water. He said this was also an ideal time to build rapport with all interested parties as well as ensure there is a owner/agent document in place so all parties know their responsibilities.
Weakley then began to give an update on the sewer system. He said that Fairview Beach and Dahlgren WWTPs have nutrient requirements for the permit as well as the Water Quality Improvement Fund (WQIF) grant each facility received. He said that while Fairview Beach WWTP has the same requirements in both the permit and the grant, Dahlgren has a stricter requirement for the grant than the permit. Weakley said the Total Nitrogen (TN) was limited to 4 mg/l by permit but the WQIF grant required 3 mg/l. He said within the grant language, if limits are exceeded, DEQ can assess a fee but he isn't sure what that fee amount would be.
For historical context, DEQ issued a letter in March 2018 stating that the Dahlgren WWTP exceeded allowed limits for Total Phosphorus (TP). The limit in the grant was 0.30 mg/l and the annual average was 0.44 mg/l. DEQ assessed a rate of $8,500 per 0.1 mg/l overage for a total fee of $11,900. That same month, Fairview Beach WWTP has a similar fee assessed for $3,976.
Bennett asked if he had any thoughts about which took a priority, the grant or the permit. Eric Gregory, County Attorney, said the permit is the legal authority while the grant will only govern funds for a project. Bennett wondered if there was a way to make the limits the same and asked Weakley if he had seen this before. Weakley said he hasn't really seen this much before. Gregory added that often the grant is to fund equipment upgrades to get a certain level or reading above the permit and when it falls below, then the funds could be impacted. Gregory said that has happened before. Werle added the regulations and guidelines say they can collect funds. Weakley said he was happy to see if there's any wiggle room or if they can get them to match. Gregory agreed that it was certainly worth a try.
Weakley continued his report stating new operating procedures and manuals were being completed, a sampler was installed at Purkins Corner WWTP, and an algae evaluation was being completed. He also said pump stations were continuing to be an issue noting that there were two sanitary sewer overflows recently. He said both were reported as required to DEQ but the pump failures and lack of redundancy were an issue. Weakley said he didn't like coming to the Board with reports like this but he was being honest and transparent. He did give more positive news with revenue coming in with connections in Hopyard. Werle added that Ryan Homes built 41 homes last year and were on track to build more than that this year. Werle also said that Hazel Homes is working on the infrastructure in the final three sections for the remaining 450 homes. Weakley said it helps the bottom line.
Weakley also thanked Dr. Young, County Administrator, and Travis Quesenberry for their help with the decommissioning proposal and the utility plan submission. Weakley said two tampering fee letters were sent, hiring wastewater operations staff is ongoing, and meetings on the feasibility study for decommissioning are planned. The meeting for the feasibility study was discussed at length to determine who could and who should attend the meeting. With only two Board of Director members being allowed to attend, the timing of the meeting, and the technical knowledge needed, the Board agreed that Werle would attend the first meeting and that Binder would attend meetings after that. Also invited were Dr. Young and Travis Quesenberry.
Weakley also said that a billing issue related to the encryption codes for water meters was discovered and resolved. He said about 70 meters were not billing correctly and those customers would be put on a payment plan. Weakley said he has already reached out to the Finance Department to develop a new quality control process to ensure this doesn't occur again.
Brabo asked about the water systems being combined and what the benefit would be for combining them under one permit. Weakley explained that it would save money in the end because of the reduction in sampling, lab analysis, and correspondence. Brabo also said that in the past, the General Manager would provide the Board monthly updates on the current revenue and where it tracked with the projected revenue to see if the Service Authority would meet it's budget. Weakley said he would gather the information for a future meeting.
Bennett then discussed the pump issues at some length. He said the issue was complicated and that most pump stations should have two pumps. Weakley agreed that most larger stations have two. Bennett said the problem with ours was that we only had one working pump. Similar to the earlier, and still on-going, issues with having the correct number of wells working or available for use, the pump stations need redundancy. He said DEQ took special notice of this lack of redundancy and may continue to focus on it in the future. Bennett said we don't know what DEQ will require but wanted to give the Board and customers a preview of coming attractions but said "it may be a horror movie." He continued by saying it would cost a lot of money to get them up and running but they're hopeful DEQ will let them phase it in over time so there wouldn't be such a blow to the bottom line.
Bennett said he talked to Weakley over the phone a few weeks ago and asked him how it was going being the General Manager. Bennett said Weakley told him he loved a challenge "but man, this has a lot of challenges." Bennett said that was dead honest and we're here to help. Bennett then spoke to Mrs. Richard, who was still in the audience, that he didn't respond to her public comment because he felt like, with all due respect, it was a no-brainer that more notice should be given.
Bennett made two final points. First, he felt that Weakley should give a State of the Union of sorts for the Service Authority. Bennett said Weakley would have a fresh look on things and it may help. Bennett said he's been impressed so far with Weakley's performance, noting that he recently caught an issue where a vendor had over billed them. Bennett's second point was surrounding Weakley's power to change job descriptions and pay. Bennett wanted to know how much the Board was involved with that. Brabo said the only employee the Board oversees is Weakley. She said it was up to Weakley to run his shop how he saw fit. Regarding pay, Brabo said Weakley would need to put it in his budget and bring it before the Board for approval.
There was no Closed Session.
With that, the meeting adjourned at 7:20pm.
Meeting Attendees:
Christopher Werle (Board of Directors)
Jonathon Weakley (General Manager of Service Authority)
Richard Granger (Board of Supervisors)
Michael Bennett (Chairman, Citizen)
Ruby Brabo (Board of Supervisors)
Cathy Binder (Board of Supervisors)
Neiman Young (County Administrator)
Eric Gregory (County Attorney)
Meeting Agenda
Next Meeting:
The Service Authority will next meet on February 11, 2019 at 6:30 pm at the Revercomb Building.
Previous Meeting:
Read about the previous Service Authority Meeting.
Friday, February 8, 2019
OPINION - Second Round of Military Exercises
by Neil Richard
The 98th Civil Affairs Battalion landed in King George County again, this time arriving by car instead of parachute. As with last year's exercises, the format was to brief County leadership and staff on their goals, answer questions from residents at a Town Hall, and give presentations with their findings. Many of the men and women of Bravo Company were not only new to Civil Affairs but also new to each other as teammates. Despite this challenge, they exceeded expectations and handled themselves as well as, and sometimes better than, the previous teams.
The week began with a presentation to show the general overview of the group's plan and their main focus. There were four individual teams, each with a different area to research and develop a plan for the end of the week. During the week, each team met with local residents, business owners, and regional partners. Just like last year, each team was met with challenges, some real, some manufactured, to help them in their training exercise.
One point that was emphasized early and often was that even though this was a training exercise, both sides of the symbiotic relationship saw a real world impact. Dr. Neiman Young, County Administrator, cited a specific Sergeant from the previous trainees that spoke to him after his deployment. Young said the Sergeant gave examples from his experience in King George that helped complete their mission while deployed. Ruby Brabo also cited benefits to the County, including a partnership with the Dahlgren Railroad Heritage Trail (DRHT) that helped expand the options available to the Parks and Recreation Department [EDITOR'S NOTE - Neil Richard, a co-founder of Project94, is the Treasurer of the Friends of DRHT.].
Before going into the end results from each team, it should be noted that these results were driven by a short week, multiple interviews and on-site surveys, and input from elected officials. As was the case last year, the presentations given had some obvious facts stated, some new ideas given, and were generally well received. The presentations are also not binding in any way, but rather an outsider's perspective on what can be done to resolve current or future issues.
Economic Development
This group recommended a workshop or summit for the Economic Development Authority, Economic Development Department, Tourism Advisory Committee, and other groups to better work together and collaborate as a group. They also recommended looking into regional partnerships to see where membership money could best be spent.
Parks and Recreation
This group looked mostly at the river access in the County. With Wayside Park on the Potomac River going away when the new 301 Bridge is built, the County would be left with one County-owned water access location; Wilmont Landing. After reviewing the area, they recommended making minor improvements but nothing more. Due to County property being surrounded by a National Wildlife Refuge, only four spaces on site, and the Rappahannock River being one of the fastest in the state, they felt it would be too expensive, too complicated, and too dangerous to make large improvements there.
However, they recommended using existing, privately owned water access points instead. They felt using a Private-Public Partnership (P3) could benefit the property owner, local businesses, and the County. Locations mentioned were Fairview Beach, Waugh Point, Caledon, Machodoc Creek Marina, and Still Water Marina. They also clarified that the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (DGIF) owned the Hopyard Landing access point and that it was open to the public.
Transportation
In looking at the transportation needs and challenges of those working on base and living in the surrounding area, this team suggested using a variety of methods to help curb traffic and increase the speed of access onto base. They suggested van pools, bike lanes, micro-bussing, and even changes to access control. Citing the public transit system in Fayetteville and Fort Bragg, their home base, they felt a public or ride sharing option was feasible. Alternating traffic at the gates and even special HOV lanes at the gates may require more work but were still in the realm of the possible.
Emergency Operations
In being tasked with refining the current Emergency Operations process, this group said they found so few deficiencies, they would instead present their findings on the security assessment they did for the Courthouse and Revercomb Building. Using the two existing options of building a new Courthouse or to use existing buildings, they felt their plan could work for either of those options or anything in between until a final solution was developed. By focusing on improving security at the Courthouse, increasing drills at the Revercomb Building, and identifying the benefits and challenges of any solution, this group felt their ideas could be used now and in the future regardless of what the final answer is for the Courthouse question.
In closing, this young group made an impression with their innovative ideas. There were stumbling points along the way but they learned from their mistakes and adapted well. There level of detail was great but the depth of their research was most impressive. Not only how much was done before their arrival but also during their stay. I wish them well in their future deployments and know that they will not be forgotten.
The 98th Civil Affairs Battalion landed in King George County again, this time arriving by car instead of parachute. As with last year's exercises, the format was to brief County leadership and staff on their goals, answer questions from residents at a Town Hall, and give presentations with their findings. Many of the men and women of Bravo Company were not only new to Civil Affairs but also new to each other as teammates. Despite this challenge, they exceeded expectations and handled themselves as well as, and sometimes better than, the previous teams.
The week began with a presentation to show the general overview of the group's plan and their main focus. There were four individual teams, each with a different area to research and develop a plan for the end of the week. During the week, each team met with local residents, business owners, and regional partners. Just like last year, each team was met with challenges, some real, some manufactured, to help them in their training exercise.
One point that was emphasized early and often was that even though this was a training exercise, both sides of the symbiotic relationship saw a real world impact. Dr. Neiman Young, County Administrator, cited a specific Sergeant from the previous trainees that spoke to him after his deployment. Young said the Sergeant gave examples from his experience in King George that helped complete their mission while deployed. Ruby Brabo also cited benefits to the County, including a partnership with the Dahlgren Railroad Heritage Trail (DRHT) that helped expand the options available to the Parks and Recreation Department [EDITOR'S NOTE - Neil Richard, a co-founder of Project94, is the Treasurer of the Friends of DRHT.].
Before going into the end results from each team, it should be noted that these results were driven by a short week, multiple interviews and on-site surveys, and input from elected officials. As was the case last year, the presentations given had some obvious facts stated, some new ideas given, and were generally well received. The presentations are also not binding in any way, but rather an outsider's perspective on what can be done to resolve current or future issues.
Economic Development
This group recommended a workshop or summit for the Economic Development Authority, Economic Development Department, Tourism Advisory Committee, and other groups to better work together and collaborate as a group. They also recommended looking into regional partnerships to see where membership money could best be spent.
Parks and Recreation
This group looked mostly at the river access in the County. With Wayside Park on the Potomac River going away when the new 301 Bridge is built, the County would be left with one County-owned water access location; Wilmont Landing. After reviewing the area, they recommended making minor improvements but nothing more. Due to County property being surrounded by a National Wildlife Refuge, only four spaces on site, and the Rappahannock River being one of the fastest in the state, they felt it would be too expensive, too complicated, and too dangerous to make large improvements there.
However, they recommended using existing, privately owned water access points instead. They felt using a Private-Public Partnership (P3) could benefit the property owner, local businesses, and the County. Locations mentioned were Fairview Beach, Waugh Point, Caledon, Machodoc Creek Marina, and Still Water Marina. They also clarified that the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (DGIF) owned the Hopyard Landing access point and that it was open to the public.
Transportation
In looking at the transportation needs and challenges of those working on base and living in the surrounding area, this team suggested using a variety of methods to help curb traffic and increase the speed of access onto base. They suggested van pools, bike lanes, micro-bussing, and even changes to access control. Citing the public transit system in Fayetteville and Fort Bragg, their home base, they felt a public or ride sharing option was feasible. Alternating traffic at the gates and even special HOV lanes at the gates may require more work but were still in the realm of the possible.
Emergency Operations
In being tasked with refining the current Emergency Operations process, this group said they found so few deficiencies, they would instead present their findings on the security assessment they did for the Courthouse and Revercomb Building. Using the two existing options of building a new Courthouse or to use existing buildings, they felt their plan could work for either of those options or anything in between until a final solution was developed. By focusing on improving security at the Courthouse, increasing drills at the Revercomb Building, and identifying the benefits and challenges of any solution, this group felt their ideas could be used now and in the future regardless of what the final answer is for the Courthouse question.
In closing, this young group made an impression with their innovative ideas. There were stumbling points along the way but they learned from their mistakes and adapted well. There level of detail was great but the depth of their research was most impressive. Not only how much was done before their arrival but also during their stay. I wish them well in their future deployments and know that they will not be forgotten.
Thursday, February 7, 2019
OPINION - Line By Line Review of Department Budgets
by Neil Richard
On January 31, 2019, the Board of Supervisors and most of the Citizen Budget Advisory Committee met for their second Budget Work Session. Just like the previous Work Session, Dr. Neiman Young, County Administrator, repeated much of what was covered last year. While he and the Supervisors may have remembered the information from last year, it served as a good education for the citizens.
Dr. Young's review covered the differences between charities and outside agencies, mandated and unmandated agencies, and a table comparing the amounts requested by outside agencies last year and the actual amounts funded by the Board. Dr. Young also assured the Board that neither he nor his staff removed any funding requests as it was the Board's decision on what was ultimately funded.
As in previous years, the Board agreed to not fund unmandated agencies with only a few exceptions. There was a general consensus to fund the disAbility Resource Center and the Thurman Brisben Homeless Shelter again this year. Bill Doyle, the Vice President of Finance at Rappahannock Community College (RCC), gave a short presentation explaining their funding request this year and why it was different. RCC asked for an additional $113 dollars this year compared to last year. While the Board listened, the general mood was that they saw no reason to pick apart his request but did appreciate his time and effort in presenting his request.
There was some discussion over King George County being a member of the Fredericksburg Regional Alliance (FRA) and how much that membership gave back to the County. There seemed to be some concern over the return on investment but the discussion somehow turned into another discussion on the defunct plan to bring natural gas to the Industrial Park. There was also some discussion of the large increase in funding requested from the Rappahannock Area Community Services Board (RACSB). At just over an extra $7,500 from last year, the Board felt like a presentation was in order to get a better understanding of why the request was so much larger and to learn more about what services they offer and how they benefit King George residents.
Dr. Young also reviewed the various line items that could, and would, impact the budget. The mandatory items included an unknown School Board budget, unknown health insurance increases, the Virginia Retirement System (VRS), and more. He also shared his desire to include optional items, such as the planned increase in County employee pay, four new employee positions, and a potential increase to the Supervisors salary. Much of this discussion was around the request for a truck inspector at the landfill to ensure trucks leaving the facility had no loose trash remaining in their trailers. Young said this used to be an existing position but was never back-filled when the previous employee left. He said he added this position due to the frequent complaints about trash along the roads near the landfill as well as main roads that trucks use to transport trash to the landfill. The Board balked a little bit and was more interested in looking to see if Waste Management could foot the bill. Dr. Young said he has already discussed the matter with them and it sounded like Waste Management felt the County should pay for it. In the end, the general consensus from the Board was to look at some way to share the cost of the inspector's salary between Waste Management and the County.
Next on the Agenda for the evening was a line-by-line review of three departments. Because the Social Services Director was on vacation, the only departments reviewed were Information Technology (IT) and Parks and Recreation. Chris Dines, Director of the IT Department, reviewed his budget page by page, line by line, and answered questions from the Board. When asked why there were so many licenses for Microsoft Office 365, Dines said it was for every County employee, not just the employees in the IT Department. The Board also questioned why he was paying for an air card for Travis Quesenberry, County Engineer. Dines said he needed a mobile connection when he was working in the field and didn't have a tablet that could do so.
Next up was Chris Clarke, Director of Parks and Recreation Department. His budget was split into four major sections; Administration, Citizen's Center, Athletics, and Programs. Clarke explained that because Athletics and Programs were self-sufficient with their funding, he wasn't going to review them. Under the Administration umbrella fell the majority of Clarke's budget. While nobody on the Board called attention to it, I noticed that of the fleet of vehicles used, only one was relatively new; a 2017 van. The other three vehicles used included a 2009 Ford Explorer and two vehicles from 2000. With half of his fleet nearly 20 years old, I predict a need for a new van next year.
When the flyers and brochures came up, most of the discussion focused on how the school system no longer allowed flyers to be sent home because of their use of the Peachjar tool. Peachjar is a system by which school systems, including King George County, can electronically distribute flyers. In other words, instead of sending flyers and newsletters home with students, they can be sent in a more environmentally friendly way. There was also a lengthy discussion regarding the need for a PO Box versus a mailbox outside the building. The general consensus seemed to be that simply installing a mailbox would save the County $200 per year. The Board questioned the need for so many cell phones but Clarke explained that those employees that needed to be contacted on evenings or weekends had them as well as those employees that were often in the field because of athletic programs.
One discussion that both departments shared was the travel and conference expenses. Similar to her question last year, Ruby Brabo questioned why Dines had such a small budget for conferences. Dines said that because his staff is so small, he rarely attends them unless they are nearby. When the Board asked Clarke about the conference fees that Dr. Young had removed from his budget, Clarke said Dr. Young made a fair point that as a very new employee he should maybe wait until next year to attend more events.
Clarke then moved into the Citizen's Center budget, noting that with recent bathroom renovations, there was a significant drop in revenue. He also said the construction at the King George Middle School and a leaky roof at King George Elementary School have impacted their athletics programs as well. Although Clarke didn't go into detail about it, his budget paperwork did explain that the Citizen's Center was frequently rented by various groups. Because of this, cleaning staff often worked odd hours, including past midnight on weekends, to clean the building immediately following an event.
Although not a part of the presented budget, it was brought up that the Old King George Middle School currently had no heat. Because of this, the water was turned off to prevent pipes from freezing. Due to the lack of water, Dr. Young said a porta-potty was brought in for those that still rent the building. He said although it wasn't ideal, it was a stop-gap measure until heat and water could be restored.
Future work sessions are scheduled for February 13th and 26th with the first meeting covering a line-by-line review of Social Services and expenditure reports and the second meeting will include a briefing from Davenport. Future work sessions beyond those will include a budget from the School Board and revenue reports.
Further Reading:
January 29, 2019 - A View From Outside The Citizen Budget Advisory Committee
On January 31, 2019, the Board of Supervisors and most of the Citizen Budget Advisory Committee met for their second Budget Work Session. Just like the previous Work Session, Dr. Neiman Young, County Administrator, repeated much of what was covered last year. While he and the Supervisors may have remembered the information from last year, it served as a good education for the citizens.
Dr. Young's review covered the differences between charities and outside agencies, mandated and unmandated agencies, and a table comparing the amounts requested by outside agencies last year and the actual amounts funded by the Board. Dr. Young also assured the Board that neither he nor his staff removed any funding requests as it was the Board's decision on what was ultimately funded.
As in previous years, the Board agreed to not fund unmandated agencies with only a few exceptions. There was a general consensus to fund the disAbility Resource Center and the Thurman Brisben Homeless Shelter again this year. Bill Doyle, the Vice President of Finance at Rappahannock Community College (RCC), gave a short presentation explaining their funding request this year and why it was different. RCC asked for an additional $113 dollars this year compared to last year. While the Board listened, the general mood was that they saw no reason to pick apart his request but did appreciate his time and effort in presenting his request.
There was some discussion over King George County being a member of the Fredericksburg Regional Alliance (FRA) and how much that membership gave back to the County. There seemed to be some concern over the return on investment but the discussion somehow turned into another discussion on the defunct plan to bring natural gas to the Industrial Park. There was also some discussion of the large increase in funding requested from the Rappahannock Area Community Services Board (RACSB). At just over an extra $7,500 from last year, the Board felt like a presentation was in order to get a better understanding of why the request was so much larger and to learn more about what services they offer and how they benefit King George residents.
Dr. Young also reviewed the various line items that could, and would, impact the budget. The mandatory items included an unknown School Board budget, unknown health insurance increases, the Virginia Retirement System (VRS), and more. He also shared his desire to include optional items, such as the planned increase in County employee pay, four new employee positions, and a potential increase to the Supervisors salary. Much of this discussion was around the request for a truck inspector at the landfill to ensure trucks leaving the facility had no loose trash remaining in their trailers. Young said this used to be an existing position but was never back-filled when the previous employee left. He said he added this position due to the frequent complaints about trash along the roads near the landfill as well as main roads that trucks use to transport trash to the landfill. The Board balked a little bit and was more interested in looking to see if Waste Management could foot the bill. Dr. Young said he has already discussed the matter with them and it sounded like Waste Management felt the County should pay for it. In the end, the general consensus from the Board was to look at some way to share the cost of the inspector's salary between Waste Management and the County.
Next on the Agenda for the evening was a line-by-line review of three departments. Because the Social Services Director was on vacation, the only departments reviewed were Information Technology (IT) and Parks and Recreation. Chris Dines, Director of the IT Department, reviewed his budget page by page, line by line, and answered questions from the Board. When asked why there were so many licenses for Microsoft Office 365, Dines said it was for every County employee, not just the employees in the IT Department. The Board also questioned why he was paying for an air card for Travis Quesenberry, County Engineer. Dines said he needed a mobile connection when he was working in the field and didn't have a tablet that could do so.
Next up was Chris Clarke, Director of Parks and Recreation Department. His budget was split into four major sections; Administration, Citizen's Center, Athletics, and Programs. Clarke explained that because Athletics and Programs were self-sufficient with their funding, he wasn't going to review them. Under the Administration umbrella fell the majority of Clarke's budget. While nobody on the Board called attention to it, I noticed that of the fleet of vehicles used, only one was relatively new; a 2017 van. The other three vehicles used included a 2009 Ford Explorer and two vehicles from 2000. With half of his fleet nearly 20 years old, I predict a need for a new van next year.
When the flyers and brochures came up, most of the discussion focused on how the school system no longer allowed flyers to be sent home because of their use of the Peachjar tool. Peachjar is a system by which school systems, including King George County, can electronically distribute flyers. In other words, instead of sending flyers and newsletters home with students, they can be sent in a more environmentally friendly way. There was also a lengthy discussion regarding the need for a PO Box versus a mailbox outside the building. The general consensus seemed to be that simply installing a mailbox would save the County $200 per year. The Board questioned the need for so many cell phones but Clarke explained that those employees that needed to be contacted on evenings or weekends had them as well as those employees that were often in the field because of athletic programs.
One discussion that both departments shared was the travel and conference expenses. Similar to her question last year, Ruby Brabo questioned why Dines had such a small budget for conferences. Dines said that because his staff is so small, he rarely attends them unless they are nearby. When the Board asked Clarke about the conference fees that Dr. Young had removed from his budget, Clarke said Dr. Young made a fair point that as a very new employee he should maybe wait until next year to attend more events.
Clarke then moved into the Citizen's Center budget, noting that with recent bathroom renovations, there was a significant drop in revenue. He also said the construction at the King George Middle School and a leaky roof at King George Elementary School have impacted their athletics programs as well. Although Clarke didn't go into detail about it, his budget paperwork did explain that the Citizen's Center was frequently rented by various groups. Because of this, cleaning staff often worked odd hours, including past midnight on weekends, to clean the building immediately following an event.
Although not a part of the presented budget, it was brought up that the Old King George Middle School currently had no heat. Because of this, the water was turned off to prevent pipes from freezing. Due to the lack of water, Dr. Young said a porta-potty was brought in for those that still rent the building. He said although it wasn't ideal, it was a stop-gap measure until heat and water could be restored.
Future work sessions are scheduled for February 13th and 26th with the first meeting covering a line-by-line review of Social Services and expenditure reports and the second meeting will include a briefing from Davenport. Future work sessions beyond those will include a budget from the School Board and revenue reports.
Further Reading:
January 29, 2019 - A View From Outside The Citizen Budget Advisory Committee
Tuesday, February 5, 2019
Monday, February 4, 2019
An Interview With Elizabeth Lee - Local Leaders #3
by Neil Richard
The basic idea behind this interview series is to interview local leaders that live, work, or have an important impact on King George County. We have asked various citizens for recommendations on who they see as a local leader. Additionally, we feel that everyone has a story and it deserves to be told. So we want to know their story. As you can see with the questions below, we want to share their story with the rest of the citizens in King George County. If you have somebody you would like to nominate for a future interview, please contact us.
Elizabeth Lee, Curator, King George County Historical Society
Introduction
The basic idea behind this interview series is to interview local leaders that live, work, or have an important impact on King George County. We have asked various citizens for recommendations on who they see as a local leader. Additionally, we feel that everyone has a story and it deserves to be told. So we want to know their story. As you can see with the questions below, we want to share their story with the rest of the citizens in King George County. If you have somebody you would like to nominate for a future interview, please contact us.
Elizabeth Lee, Curator, King George County Historical Society
Basic Biographical Information
I graduated from King George in 1964, what they call the old King George Elementary School. I left high school and went to William and Mary for a year. I always tell people I fell in love. Actually I was leaving King George and I was already in love so I came home and got married. But I still wanted to finish college so I got on the programs that were being offered in Dahlgren. I went back to Mary Washington. They offered all of these math classes. The admissions director looked at me and said "we don't have enough credits here for you to be able to major in math so how about physics." So I graduated with a degree in physics and went back to work in Dahlgren. I retired in 1994.
In the meantime, we had four children. Three boys and a girl. The two oldest boys were in school by the time I went back to school. My oldest told everybody that he was "going to go to school and so was momma."
Special certifications? I don't know. I can't think of any.
So I finished Mary Washington in 1973. I took some graduate classes but like I said, I left Dahlgren in 1994 and I started pursuing my real love, history.
I will add to all of that. The thing that I try to tell the kids and adults that come here to the museum is to look around as you're walking in the footsteps of our founding fathers in King George. You may not hear that very much. We know that James Madison was born here but he really didn't live here. No one realizes that George Washington lived in King George at Ferry Farm. When he was a boy living in Ferry Farm, that part of Stafford was in King George County. And his father's will is in the Courthouse here. He also had family in the Mathias Point area. So I try to emphasize that there is history here. Although at one time, somebody once said that "this County has no history." Of course that blew my mind. But we try to emphasize something. Kids at one point didn't even know that James Madison was born here.
About the time I left work, I became a member of the Virginia Genealogical Society and I was almost immediately put on the Board. I've been on the Advisory Board for the Board of Supervisors for the Ralph Bunche School. Northern Neck of Virginia Historical Society. Friends of the State Archives, which is the archival portion of the state library, I was President of that one. I don't know when I wasn't on a board until recently when I've slowed down a little bit.
I was the immediate past President of the King George County Historical Society. I've actually served as the President twice. I've been what they call the Curator but I'd rather say the Director of the Museum and I have been since Day One. I told the President then, if you want to remove me, because it's an appointed job, if you ever want to remove me, just remember I'll be coming in here every day anyway so you might as well keep me here.
I was the immediate past President of the King George County Historical Society. I've actually served as the President twice. I've been what they call the Curator but I'd rather say the Director of the Museum and I have been since Day One. I told the President then, if you want to remove me, because it's an appointed job, if you ever want to remove me, just remember I'll be coming in here every day anyway so you might as well keep me here.
Personal Questions
What do you remember about your grandparents?
I told somebody the other day that my roots are so deep in King George, I'm made up of dirt. My mother's family, I never knew either one of her parents. My grandfather died when she was two years old. He worked for Goldsmith's in Fredericksburg. He actually modeled clothes for them. He was a handsome man. He was tall and slender. He had olive skin. My grandmother died about two years before I was born from cancer. So my mother was left to her own defenses then.
My father's side, he was from Buckingham County. I knew both grandparents, they were both born and raised in Buckingham. So I got to meet a little more of the family, the younger part of the family, that way. I was born in Charlotte, North Carolina. Everybody I say that to, I say it was an accident. My father was a bus driver. When I was nine months old we came back here to Richmond but my maternal grandmother's parents were still living up here across from the Historyland Cemetery. Where those apartments are, our house used to be there. We lived there for awhile.
They would come to Richmond and pick me up and I would come up here and spend some time and either they would take me back or my parents would come up and get me. So I remember a lot more of here than I do Richmond. All kinds of memories. People say how could you because I wasn't even four years old when she died. They were really close to me. She had one sister and two brothers that were all still living so I remember all of them. The sister especially thought that the sun rose and set in my behind. She left me everything she had in her will which turned out to be nothing. She became blind and had to be taken care of by social services so they got everything except her bed. One of my uncles gave his farm to my mother and that was where I was raised until I left home and got married.
My grandfather had three sisters still alive after I was born and I remember one aunt who was one of the oldest. She was always in bed and if my mother left us there with her daughter, we would sit on the side bed and I always remember the clock ticking because it was so quiet. We wouldn't say a word. The two youngest sisters, I used to have fun with them because they were fun.
But that's sort of the reason for my love of history because I knew them. Knowing them, I knew they lived a different life than we did. One of the funny things was that we'd go over to the farm and my aunt and two uncles were living there and there was this pile of corn cobs sitting at the door. And I would sit on the floor and build pig pens with these corn cobs. I had no idea until I was grown and it hit me. I know what those corn cobs are for now!
Aunts, uncles, cousins. When I talk about my cousin, she's probably my third cousin once removed, I was around her all my life. They're closer than first cousins.
How did your grandparents instill that love of history?
I wish I could remember any stories that they told me. If I could go back with an adult mind and remember. I guess it was curiosity and knowing them. I thought I knew them but where were they born. My mother even talked about my great grandfather's parents and I knew they were related and it turned out they were first cousins. Their mothers were sisters. And the name was Fitzhugh. The Fitzhughs were a very early name in Virginia. We think William Fitzhugh came here about 1672 and he had probably been here before. He worked for Lord Fairfax and he ended up with something like 50,000 acres of land, including Alexandria.
So I guess what really got me going was how am I related to that man? My grandmother was Elizabeth Fitzhugh. And I worked that all the way back and finally I know how I am related. I actually got enough proof that I was able to get into the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR). Which I didn't think I'd do because my fourth great-grandfather never married. But he wrote a will and he named all of his children and he named his housekeeper as their mother. And he gave her a legacy. And the DAR accepted it. I don't do much with the DAR but I'm really thrilled that I was able to make it in.
What historical events influenced your life the most?
9/11 changed the way we interacted with our children more.
I lived in Colonial Beach during Hurricane Hazel and the eye went through the beach. That was 1955 I think. It dumped all the slot machines into the river and by the eye of the storm the divers were out diving for slot machines. We witnessed it because my father put us in the car and took us down during the eye. I know you're not supposed to but he took us down there and we stopped and walked along the crumpled up boardwalk. And there were the divers out there.
You said death in a family. Two and a half years ago we lost our daughter. I had gone to El Salvador to get her, we had adopted her. There was a star or planet that was extra bright and I was down there and saw the same one and thought wow, what a small world we live in. Her death changed our lives completely. We went to get her and our lives had been flipped upside down since she died. She has two grandchildren, they kind of hold us together the two of us, my husband and I. One lives next door and the other one is at Edwards Air Force Base. But this old granny knows how to FaceTime and so does he and he's only eight months old.
She left a legacy. You know, I had often thought about what would happen if we had lost one of our children that I couldn't handle it. Then for it to happen to us, nothing, nothing could compare. No thoughts could compare.
This museum has been great. I've devoted a lot of time to it. Jean Graham and I have written a book. It's about Booth's escape. It's about the 34 hours of his time in King George County and what do we know about it. There was a guy that walked the whole route and took pictures back in 1901. So I compared them with family records and photos and came up with a story. And now the board that's working on the 300th anniversary wants us to write another book like the pictorial history book.
Outside of work and home, what is your favorite place in King George?
I'm the only one of my siblings that's stayed in King George. The three boys, one moved to Virginia Beach, one moved to Florida, and one moved to Texas, then Connecticut, then Fredericksburg but he's deceased now. I'm the only one that stayed here. I keep saying I'm just a country girl at heart. I don't want to live in the city or even the suburbs.
Is there one particular place? We have a lot of woods around us. I used to like to go walking back in the woods. I haven't been able to do that more recently. This summer, because of the heat. But we have a farm next to us and then two houses, two pieces of property there. With the farms, it's all open field. Just walking around there. I love going to the park. I like Barnesfield but there's no particular place. I've done a lot of running around in the County, just looking at old places for my book. Looking for where a certain stream comes out. I know that sounds crazy. But just the County or the country-side. I guess that's why I'm not a big development fan.
I used to like to go down to the farm where I was raised. In 1999 an arsonist burned it to the ground just to have fun. Just this past year, something caught the barn on fire and now it's gone. So there's nothing there. The old house that's up on the hill across Route 301 from it was my Aunt Willie's place. So we visited there quite a lot. But that wasn't one of my favorite places. I can't leave the church out because that's probably the place I go to the most now other than home and the museum.
What person, place, or thing do you think is the most underappreciated in King George County?
I think to most newcomers here, they don't seem to appreciate the old homes and the history behind them. They'd just as soon bulldoze them down and build a new house. An example was Willow Hill. It was the home of the Arnold family. Their cemetery back behind their place in Presidential Lakes. They bulldozed that one down to build Presidential Lakes. The Arnold house was right across from the high school pretty much. At least they didn't tear down the cemetery. The old clubhouse in Presidential Lakes where the pool is now used to be Cleveland. The second Cleveland. The original one burned done.
I can't say any one particular place, but I sure would like to have a picture of the Bedford house. Any place I can find an old building.
I told somebody the other day that my roots are so deep in King George, I'm made up of dirt. My mother's family, I never knew either one of her parents. My grandfather died when she was two years old. He worked for Goldsmith's in Fredericksburg. He actually modeled clothes for them. He was a handsome man. He was tall and slender. He had olive skin. My grandmother died about two years before I was born from cancer. So my mother was left to her own defenses then.
My father's side, he was from Buckingham County. I knew both grandparents, they were both born and raised in Buckingham. So I got to meet a little more of the family, the younger part of the family, that way. I was born in Charlotte, North Carolina. Everybody I say that to, I say it was an accident. My father was a bus driver. When I was nine months old we came back here to Richmond but my maternal grandmother's parents were still living up here across from the Historyland Cemetery. Where those apartments are, our house used to be there. We lived there for awhile.
They would come to Richmond and pick me up and I would come up here and spend some time and either they would take me back or my parents would come up and get me. So I remember a lot more of here than I do Richmond. All kinds of memories. People say how could you because I wasn't even four years old when she died. They were really close to me. She had one sister and two brothers that were all still living so I remember all of them. The sister especially thought that the sun rose and set in my behind. She left me everything she had in her will which turned out to be nothing. She became blind and had to be taken care of by social services so they got everything except her bed. One of my uncles gave his farm to my mother and that was where I was raised until I left home and got married.
My grandfather had three sisters still alive after I was born and I remember one aunt who was one of the oldest. She was always in bed and if my mother left us there with her daughter, we would sit on the side bed and I always remember the clock ticking because it was so quiet. We wouldn't say a word. The two youngest sisters, I used to have fun with them because they were fun.
But that's sort of the reason for my love of history because I knew them. Knowing them, I knew they lived a different life than we did. One of the funny things was that we'd go over to the farm and my aunt and two uncles were living there and there was this pile of corn cobs sitting at the door. And I would sit on the floor and build pig pens with these corn cobs. I had no idea until I was grown and it hit me. I know what those corn cobs are for now!
Aunts, uncles, cousins. When I talk about my cousin, she's probably my third cousin once removed, I was around her all my life. They're closer than first cousins.
How did your grandparents instill that love of history?
I wish I could remember any stories that they told me. If I could go back with an adult mind and remember. I guess it was curiosity and knowing them. I thought I knew them but where were they born. My mother even talked about my great grandfather's parents and I knew they were related and it turned out they were first cousins. Their mothers were sisters. And the name was Fitzhugh. The Fitzhughs were a very early name in Virginia. We think William Fitzhugh came here about 1672 and he had probably been here before. He worked for Lord Fairfax and he ended up with something like 50,000 acres of land, including Alexandria.
So I guess what really got me going was how am I related to that man? My grandmother was Elizabeth Fitzhugh. And I worked that all the way back and finally I know how I am related. I actually got enough proof that I was able to get into the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR). Which I didn't think I'd do because my fourth great-grandfather never married. But he wrote a will and he named all of his children and he named his housekeeper as their mother. And he gave her a legacy. And the DAR accepted it. I don't do much with the DAR but I'm really thrilled that I was able to make it in.
What historical events influenced your life the most?
9/11 changed the way we interacted with our children more.
I lived in Colonial Beach during Hurricane Hazel and the eye went through the beach. That was 1955 I think. It dumped all the slot machines into the river and by the eye of the storm the divers were out diving for slot machines. We witnessed it because my father put us in the car and took us down during the eye. I know you're not supposed to but he took us down there and we stopped and walked along the crumpled up boardwalk. And there were the divers out there.
You said death in a family. Two and a half years ago we lost our daughter. I had gone to El Salvador to get her, we had adopted her. There was a star or planet that was extra bright and I was down there and saw the same one and thought wow, what a small world we live in. Her death changed our lives completely. We went to get her and our lives had been flipped upside down since she died. She has two grandchildren, they kind of hold us together the two of us, my husband and I. One lives next door and the other one is at Edwards Air Force Base. But this old granny knows how to FaceTime and so does he and he's only eight months old.
She left a legacy. You know, I had often thought about what would happen if we had lost one of our children that I couldn't handle it. Then for it to happen to us, nothing, nothing could compare. No thoughts could compare.
This museum has been great. I've devoted a lot of time to it. Jean Graham and I have written a book. It's about Booth's escape. It's about the 34 hours of his time in King George County and what do we know about it. There was a guy that walked the whole route and took pictures back in 1901. So I compared them with family records and photos and came up with a story. And now the board that's working on the 300th anniversary wants us to write another book like the pictorial history book.
Outside of work and home, what is your favorite place in King George?
I'm the only one of my siblings that's stayed in King George. The three boys, one moved to Virginia Beach, one moved to Florida, and one moved to Texas, then Connecticut, then Fredericksburg but he's deceased now. I'm the only one that stayed here. I keep saying I'm just a country girl at heart. I don't want to live in the city or even the suburbs.
Is there one particular place? We have a lot of woods around us. I used to like to go walking back in the woods. I haven't been able to do that more recently. This summer, because of the heat. But we have a farm next to us and then two houses, two pieces of property there. With the farms, it's all open field. Just walking around there. I love going to the park. I like Barnesfield but there's no particular place. I've done a lot of running around in the County, just looking at old places for my book. Looking for where a certain stream comes out. I know that sounds crazy. But just the County or the country-side. I guess that's why I'm not a big development fan.
I used to like to go down to the farm where I was raised. In 1999 an arsonist burned it to the ground just to have fun. Just this past year, something caught the barn on fire and now it's gone. So there's nothing there. The old house that's up on the hill across Route 301 from it was my Aunt Willie's place. So we visited there quite a lot. But that wasn't one of my favorite places. I can't leave the church out because that's probably the place I go to the most now other than home and the museum.
What person, place, or thing do you think is the most underappreciated in King George County?
I think to most newcomers here, they don't seem to appreciate the old homes and the history behind them. They'd just as soon bulldoze them down and build a new house. An example was Willow Hill. It was the home of the Arnold family. Their cemetery back behind their place in Presidential Lakes. They bulldozed that one down to build Presidential Lakes. The Arnold house was right across from the high school pretty much. At least they didn't tear down the cemetery. The old clubhouse in Presidential Lakes where the pool is now used to be Cleveland. The second Cleveland. The original one burned done.
I can't say any one particular place, but I sure would like to have a picture of the Bedford house. Any place I can find an old building.
Professional Questions
Who is your inspiration or mentor?
I have to say two. Bill Deyo. He's the historian for the Potomac [Patawomeck] Tribe. He could tell you anything you wanted to know about Stafford County people. Even who didn't have the right father or right child, he knew them all. He says his Aunt Polly told him everything. He did a lot of genealogy for Stafford. Of course some of that blew over into King George so he was quite an inspiration.
The other one was our friend Aubrey Jennings. When he retired from Dahlgren, several years before I did, he went to work and most of what is in our file cabinets came from him.
What is your ideal vision for King George County in the future?
Very controlled development. I really wouldn't want to see any more but that's not going to happen. But I would like to see a lot of consideration for our history. A lot of times people will just go bulldozing through something and have no idea about the history. No idea what should and shouldn't be preserved. But I'd like to see that supported by our government. I know they have a lot of other things that have to be done but that shouldn't cost any money, I wouldn't think.
I just have this fear that by the time I get old, I won't recognize the place. I often say that my mother, if she came back today, she would not know where she was.
What do you feel are the top 3 issues to address in King George?
I have to look right here. I try not to get involved with a lot of politics but you can't help it sometimes. The issue here is the County does not really address its history. We have a 300th anniversary coming up and they have formed a committee. Which is a lot better than what happened in 2007 when the whole state of Virginia celebrated the 400th anniversary of Jamestown. We took the lead on that, as in the Historical Society, and we started with the Administrator and it went down to the Assistant and then he sent us to Parks and Rec. So the County never really got into it at all. So that's basically why we wrote the book to that we at least had something to show for it even if the County didn't participate.
Now there's the issue about the Courthouse. I don't want to see anything happen to this building but that may not happen. They, as in our government officials, have convinced me to move our research area into the Virginiana Room in the Smoot Library. I finally agreed after many, many questions. Our books are still our books. Our files are still our files. We'll keep this area, the museum, just for our museum pieces.
The last is we have museum pieces in this County in private homes. We've never been able to show them. They're beautiful pieces. It's lack of space. We found these cases here that go up higher to get more stuff in these than the shorter ones and that's fine for the smaller pieces but it's not good for the bigger stuff. We have a loom. We have a beautiful quilt that was done by slaves in 1835. The family gave it to us because they didn't know what to do with it. It's probably larger than a King Size bed. Some of the spots, some of the areas on it, the material is still bright enough to see the design. You can see the stitching. Very few places where it was torn. But we have to keep it on the shelf in there covered in archival tissue paper. And there it sits. We have the old voting drum. It was a drum about this high that you turn and you'd stick your vote in the slot in the top like a big piggy bank and it rolled and went down. The votes had to be hand counted. We've got a beautiful settee that was sold at auction in 1842 from Spy Hill. What are we going to do with them? I was told we would keep this museum but the other day I was told no, everybody was getting out. We have no prospects. I think the problem is the people that worked on that have no clue what we've got.
What do you feel are the top 3 successes in King George?
I had one earlier and I forgot it.
Our library, I think we've got one of the nicest libraries, at least in the state of Virginia. I think it was the nicest library for any county before they added on. To be able to show that off is great. I had family come in and I said this is our library.
Barnesfield Park is a good one.
Number three. I could always say our Sheriff's Department. It's huge too. I've been on a tour. I think our Deputies are more prepared than they used to be. I remember the good old boy, one or two Deputies. Used to come by the house and "How are you?" and "I'm fine thank you." They seem very professional, much more so than I remember. So that would have to be a success.
What person, place, or thing do you think we lack in King George?
You look down at Dahlgren and they've got McDonald's and Burger King and Arby's. KFC and Taco Bell. Dunkin' Donuts. Starbucks. I love Jersey Mikes. And Five Guys. As much as I don't like the idea of development, I'd like to see one or two things up here near the Courthouse. We've got a Subway. So if we have to tell somebody where's the fast food, that's the only place we have on this side of the County. It's lacking. You've got to want to go to sit down to dinner. Which don't get me wrong, it took me awhile but I finally went into El Charro and they are good. It's really good food in there. Vinny's is not too bad either. But the only place I can run into is Subway.
Jean and I have started ordering pizza and stuff from Pizza Bono. We told them the other day that we're one of their hot spots. They'll bring up here all the time. All I have to say is the museum. Yeah, I would like to see a couple, not a whole lot, just a couple choices up here. I'd go to Dahlgren for Chik-fil-A.
I have to say two. Bill Deyo. He's the historian for the Potomac [Patawomeck] Tribe. He could tell you anything you wanted to know about Stafford County people. Even who didn't have the right father or right child, he knew them all. He says his Aunt Polly told him everything. He did a lot of genealogy for Stafford. Of course some of that blew over into King George so he was quite an inspiration.
The other one was our friend Aubrey Jennings. When he retired from Dahlgren, several years before I did, he went to work and most of what is in our file cabinets came from him.
What is your ideal vision for King George County in the future?
Very controlled development. I really wouldn't want to see any more but that's not going to happen. But I would like to see a lot of consideration for our history. A lot of times people will just go bulldozing through something and have no idea about the history. No idea what should and shouldn't be preserved. But I'd like to see that supported by our government. I know they have a lot of other things that have to be done but that shouldn't cost any money, I wouldn't think.
I just have this fear that by the time I get old, I won't recognize the place. I often say that my mother, if she came back today, she would not know where she was.
What do you feel are the top 3 issues to address in King George?
I have to look right here. I try not to get involved with a lot of politics but you can't help it sometimes. The issue here is the County does not really address its history. We have a 300th anniversary coming up and they have formed a committee. Which is a lot better than what happened in 2007 when the whole state of Virginia celebrated the 400th anniversary of Jamestown. We took the lead on that, as in the Historical Society, and we started with the Administrator and it went down to the Assistant and then he sent us to Parks and Rec. So the County never really got into it at all. So that's basically why we wrote the book to that we at least had something to show for it even if the County didn't participate.
Now there's the issue about the Courthouse. I don't want to see anything happen to this building but that may not happen. They, as in our government officials, have convinced me to move our research area into the Virginiana Room in the Smoot Library. I finally agreed after many, many questions. Our books are still our books. Our files are still our files. We'll keep this area, the museum, just for our museum pieces.
The last is we have museum pieces in this County in private homes. We've never been able to show them. They're beautiful pieces. It's lack of space. We found these cases here that go up higher to get more stuff in these than the shorter ones and that's fine for the smaller pieces but it's not good for the bigger stuff. We have a loom. We have a beautiful quilt that was done by slaves in 1835. The family gave it to us because they didn't know what to do with it. It's probably larger than a King Size bed. Some of the spots, some of the areas on it, the material is still bright enough to see the design. You can see the stitching. Very few places where it was torn. But we have to keep it on the shelf in there covered in archival tissue paper. And there it sits. We have the old voting drum. It was a drum about this high that you turn and you'd stick your vote in the slot in the top like a big piggy bank and it rolled and went down. The votes had to be hand counted. We've got a beautiful settee that was sold at auction in 1842 from Spy Hill. What are we going to do with them? I was told we would keep this museum but the other day I was told no, everybody was getting out. We have no prospects. I think the problem is the people that worked on that have no clue what we've got.
What do you feel are the top 3 successes in King George?
I had one earlier and I forgot it.
Our library, I think we've got one of the nicest libraries, at least in the state of Virginia. I think it was the nicest library for any county before they added on. To be able to show that off is great. I had family come in and I said this is our library.
Barnesfield Park is a good one.
Number three. I could always say our Sheriff's Department. It's huge too. I've been on a tour. I think our Deputies are more prepared than they used to be. I remember the good old boy, one or two Deputies. Used to come by the house and "How are you?" and "I'm fine thank you." They seem very professional, much more so than I remember. So that would have to be a success.
What person, place, or thing do you think we lack in King George?
You look down at Dahlgren and they've got McDonald's and Burger King and Arby's. KFC and Taco Bell. Dunkin' Donuts. Starbucks. I love Jersey Mikes. And Five Guys. As much as I don't like the idea of development, I'd like to see one or two things up here near the Courthouse. We've got a Subway. So if we have to tell somebody where's the fast food, that's the only place we have on this side of the County. It's lacking. You've got to want to go to sit down to dinner. Which don't get me wrong, it took me awhile but I finally went into El Charro and they are good. It's really good food in there. Vinny's is not too bad either. But the only place I can run into is Subway.
Jean and I have started ordering pizza and stuff from Pizza Bono. We told them the other day that we're one of their hot spots. They'll bring up here all the time. All I have to say is the museum. Yeah, I would like to see a couple, not a whole lot, just a couple choices up here. I'd go to Dahlgren for Chik-fil-A.
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